Father buried in debt due to gambling... Need help (ako po ang sumusuporta sa kanila ngayon)

Hi,

I am looking for advice on this matters and found this forum. Much of the information I've read deals with laws on other countries and I still haven't found one that might be applicable to our laws here.

My father used to work abroad, ever since he was a bachelor he already had a gambling problem (that's what my mom and his relatives says). He went to work abroad when I was 2 years old and from his work we managed to build a house, bought a car, and even me and my 2 brothers studied at a private school even though we bumped into problems due to his gambling problem. Fast forward and I'm 25 years old now, I am now employed (regular) and earning above minimum and able to support myself. I still live with my parents and siblings and we mortgaged a condo unit here in manila and been staying here for more than a year. However something happened early this year...

The story is a bit long so I guess I'll state the problem here and tell the story later.

He accumulated a huge debt abroad and cannot manage to pay it so he didn't went back abroad after his last vacation. I am now supporting them though my salary is not enough. I have 2 brothers still in school, we are still paying our home, and also the bills and living expenses. For the mean time I am paying the mortgage which costs 75% of my monthly basic salary, he is reluctant to find work and his reasons is that he is afraid the he will get caught but we managed to force him because we won't be able to live and pay the other bills and my brothers will stop their studies. We've been like this for 6 months now trying our best to make ends meet. The problem is my father lacks the drive to work now (because he is not used to this kind of living, living from paycheck to paycheck as they say). Also we suspects that he's been going to the casino recently with reasons that his salary late, short, etc. Also he had alot of leave this past days saying that he is sick but still he is able to leave the house.

Now this get me to thinking if it's still worth to continue paying the mortgage. The unit is still under his name and it's still 13 years to pay, we are 1 month late and we can't even pay the association dues and water bills. My salary is not enough. We already planned to give up this house and just rent with my brother while my parents and youngest brother will stay at our relatives for the mean time until my brother finish his college studies. By that time, my plan is to get a small house I can afford through HDMF and let them stay there. I am now confused if it's worth to invest most of my money in this house considering that this is still under my father's name and he has a huge debt. What if the debt collectors will soon find out where he is and claim this property? I'm afraid that if I will continue to pay the mortgaged of this house, sooner or later all of I'm investing will just go to waste unlike if I'll get my own investment under my name, at least it is my property and it cannot be claimed by debt collectors who are after my father.

What happened is his gambling problems gone out of control, during the last quarter after his last vacation (which he spent at the casino almost everyday), he told us that he had accumulated a huge debt abroad, we don't know how much but he said that he won't be able to pay his monthly dues with his salary (we even didn't how much his salary is from the start). He ordered us to sell our house in the province as well as our car to lower his debt so he will be able to pay his monthly dues. After selling our properties, we sent it to him abroad (80% of it and the 20% left was used to cover our expenses for the mean time) but he went home again after his last rotation (45 days work and 3 weeks vacation) last December 2013 and again spent his vacation at the casino, like he always said, he will just keep saying that it is his money and he knows what he is doing and no one can stop him. Then we noticed that his stay here is past his allotted vacation leave. Though he left the house and went back abroad, we found out that he didn't really went back and just went in hiding at mu aunt's house.

Well! You are better off not to continue paying his condo and get one for yourself. If he act that way he does. It care what will be your siblings future. And yes! When the debt collector find out where he is, they will chase after him wherever he goes. If it is in the Middle East and he owes them more than SR100,000 (Php1.5M) they will chase after him. If he doesn't owe them that much, Middle East banks are insured up to that amount so if he won't return to work they will claim his debt to insurance but if it's more than the insured amount expect them to chase after him there in the Philippines. Of course if there are Filioino who work in that bank they will try to get involve to help chasing after him due to commissions they can get, but if they can't really find him, which is the reason he is hiding to his family so none of you can tell anyone where he is, it will be difficult for that person to deliver the demand letter for him to pay the bank.

AWV wrote:Well! You are better off not to continue paying his condo and get one for yourself. If he act that way he does. It care what will be your siblings future. And yes! When the debt collector find out where he is, they will chase after him wherever he goes. If it is in the Middle East and he owes them more than SR100,000 (Php1.5M) they will chase after him. If he doesn't owe them that much, Middle East banks are insured up to that amount so if he won't return to work they will claim his debt to insurance but if it's more than the insured amount expect them to chase after him there in the Philippines. Of course if there are Filioino who work in that bank they will try to get involve to help chasing after him due to commissions they can get, but if they can't really find him, which is the reason he is hiding to his family so none of you can tell anyone where he is, it will be difficult for that person to deliver the demand letter for him to pay the bank.

Thanks AWV for your reply specially to your advice. Yes you are right, he works in the middle east before (though not in the Saudi Arabia) but also a member of GCC countries. I asked him after reading your reply if his debt is above or around 1.5M php and he said yes but that is the total of his debts from different banks, does that rule still applies to his case considering that he doesn't have a debt in a single bank which is over that amount?

I also researched and read some articles about other OFWs that became defaulters and chose to stay here in the philippines and never went back in the middle east, so far I haven't read one that has been chased here but I don't know the amount of debt that the bank or the country will consider for them to chase the person until now thanks to you. I also read that the banks or the creditors are on their own if they decide to chase the debtor and there will be no support from the government nor from the interpol due to that lending is against the law of Islam, how true is that?

After we found out where he is and convinced to stay with us here, he kept on insisting us that sooner or later the interpol will hunt him down, that he needs to hide in a safer place and it's much better that we pretend that we don't know his whereabouts. I showed him all the articles that I've read and convinced him (after 4 months and after I used up all my incentives to cover our family expenses) to stay and find a work and that he should continue his obligations and responsibilities to our family or else I will give up this condo unit and we are on our own (though I will never allow my siblings and my mom to suffer). So far he got a job, at least with that we can now pay for the monthly dues of our home and have some cash for basic foods and electric bill. We already cut some of our other bills like internet and cable subscriptions, we haven't paid our association dues and water bill for half a year now though I plan on spending my  13th month pay for that. What annoys me now is his lack of efforts to support our family, he already messed up his job performance due to his absences. I always see him not happy about his work, he already told us that the reason he didn't went back abroad is because he doesn't want to work and all his earnings will just be used to pay his debts and it's still the same, he is working and his salary is not even enough to pay the bills. He is used to living his life gambling his earnings and if he wins, we're lucky if he loose then we will suffer. I guess that's how he incurred so much debt, every time he lost all his earnings through gambling, he will apply for a loan, send some to us and the rest he will gamble again and it keeps on going.

For now I can't even afford to support my self, living from paycheck to paycheck is even not enough but we don't have any house of our own anymore that's why I'm still continuing to pay for it.

My plan is to hold into this for another 3 years until the principal will be low enough to be eligible to be refinanced through PAGIBIG or HDMF and that will cut the monthly dues in half and have some cash to pay for the association dues and water bill and also have some small cash to save but it will extend the term to 30 years and it's still upon approval. If I'll be lucky to get a raise around 2k PHP anytime soon then I can assume the loan at that time.

I don't mind using my housing loan to assume the loan of this unit, I also don't mind giving it to them as that is still not enough to repay them for raising me and I don't have anything against them except for my fathers gambling problem. What worries me is that if I'll assume this unit, the ownership must be transferred under my name and if sooner or later the debt collectors decided to chase my father or find him in case they have been already chasing him and claim this unit as payment to his debts then all will be gone to waste.

Also I don't know if we can survive for three more years in this situation and what if when the time comes that I will apply to assume the loan and my applications get rejected then we don't have any choice but to give this up.

My other plan is to give up this unit and arrange my parents and youngest brother to stay with our relatives in the province in the mean time and while my other brother is finishing his college, we will rent a cheaper apartment here. By the time he finish college, I will then use my housing loan to get them even just a small house for them to stay there at least that will be mine and no debt collector after my father can claim it as far as I know. But my father is against this, he is insisting not to give up this unit.

Which option is much better? to assume this loan or just call it quits and get a smaller apartment for me and my brother and ask them to stay with some of our relatives? I know I should be the one to decide but any advice will be a big help for me. Also I would like to ask in case I will assume the loan and will be approved, is there any chance that if any debt collector found my father, do they have the rights to claim this property as payment for his debt?

Sorry for the long post, thank you very much for reading. All advice or replies will be much appreciated.

If that is the case that SR100,000 is only for 1 bank. So I doubt they will chase after him but they may try especially if one kabayan works in that bank at magprisinta na hanapin sya dahil may bonus yun sa kanila! Saudi or not any part of GCC has the same bank rules! And they are link to each other kaya don't let him step in any of those country again Baka di na sya makalabas pa dahil kaka kalaboso na sya nila! He can still go to Asian country like Singapore, Japan, Korea etc. but don't do the same things kasi they will not leave him alone until he pay them back. As for example I left AlKhobar in 2005 and I owe the SBB bank SR20,000 and I am now in and out of Riyadh since 2009 and I use Samba but I did not have any trouble. As your father knows our iqama and driving license here has the same documents number. So we can easily get trace but since my debt is under SR100,000 I did not have any problem at all!

AWV wrote:If that is the case that SR100,000 is only for 1 bank. So I doubt they will chase after him but they may try especially if one kabayan works in that bank at magprisinta na hanapin sya dahil may bonus yun sa kanila! Saudi or not any part of GCC has the same bank rules! And they are link to each other kaya don't let him step in any of those country again Baka di na sya makalabas pa dahil kaka kalaboso na sya nila! He can still go to Asian country like Singapore, Japan, Korea etc. but don't do the same things kasi they will not leave him alone until he pay them back. As for example I left AlKhobar in 2005 and I owe the SBB bank SR20,000 and I am now in and out of Riyadh since 2009 and I use Samba but I did not have any trouble. As your father knows our iqama and driving license here has the same documents number. So we can easily get trace but since my debt is under SR100,000 I did not have any problem at all!

Ahh... ganun pala yun... yup sabi naman niya nasa ganun daw kalaki utang nya pero ibat ibang bank naman daw. Ang hirap lang kasi eh matigas talaga siya, hindi ko alam kung paranoid lang ba o dahilan nalang nya dahil halatang nawalan na siya ng ganang magtrabaho na parang umiiwas nalang sa responsibilidad. Kung di ko pa ipagpipilitan na ititigil ko na ang pagtulong sa pagbabayad ng unit na to hindi pa sya mapipilitan na tanggapin ung job offer sa kanya dito. Matapang samin ang father ko kaya I doubt na natatakot siya sa mga collection agency, tuwing may email kasi siyang narerecieve sa mga yun lagi niyang sinasabi samin tapos balik nanaman siya sa pagiging paranoid niya na kelangan niya talagang magtago.

Thanks for your advise, so far mas nagiging concrete na ang knowledge ko about this kind of case. Yun nga lang kung itutuloy ko yung pagbabayad dito sa condo tapos matyempong mahanap siya, hindi ko alam kung magagawa ng mga debt collector na yun na kunin sa kanya to lalo na kung malilipat sa pangalan ko kung sakali... Nangangamba kasi ako na baka masayang yung paghihirapan ko kung itutuloy ko to...

Kung sakali nga po palang matunton o mahanap siya, ano po ba ang mga pwedeng gawin sa kanya ng mga debt collectors? pwede po ba siyang sampahan ng kaso dito sa Pilipinas? kung wala na po siyang trabaho, pano po nila siya mapipilit na magbayad? thanks po...

Mahirap kapag hindi sa bansa mismo ang kaso kaya outside jurisdictions hindi siguro mag waste ng time ang mga Arabo sa kanya! Pero Kung beyond insured amount maari pa dahil ang insurance ay international. Pero mabuti na ring idea na malipat sa iyo ang name para hindi na magkaroon pa ng aberya at Kung matunton man sya Kung may talagang magaaksaya ng oras hanapin sya eh di wala na silang makukuha kahit pitpitin pa man nila ang itlog nya!  

AWV wrote:Mahirap kapag hindi sa bansa mismo ang kaso kaya outside jurisdictions hindi siguro mag waste ng time ang mga Arabo sa kanya! Pero Kung beyond insured amount maari pa dahil ang insurance ay international. Pero mabuti na ring idea na malipat sa iyo ang name para hindi na magkaroon pa ng aberya at Kung matunton man sya Kung may talagang magaaksaya ng oras hanapin sya eh di wala na silang makukuha kahit pitpitin pa man nila ang itlog nya! �

Thanks po sir. Nasabi ko din po sa kanya dati di siya pagaaksayahan ng panahon tsaka ang alam ko po civil case lang po ata ang estafa, hindi ko lang po alam kung yun ang magiging kaso niya.

Kung sakali pong malipat sakin yung ownership, kahit po ba siya ang original owner eh wala po bang habol ang mga debt collector sa property na to? kung ganun po tingin pwede ko pong ituloy kung sakali as long as makikipagtulungan father ko sakin para may pangkain din sila.

Ako na pong pipilipit sa itlog niya kung ipagpipilitan pa nyo yung mga dahilan niya para umiwas sa responsibilidad... Kung sakali po, alam nyo po ba kung may malalapitan po ako na ahensya para makatulong po sakin, gaya po ng pag cocounsel sa father ko?