Process for Termination

Tanong ko lang po, nag maternity leave ako nung November 15, 2016 na emergency CS ako pre-term. Ang leave ko 2 months since CS ako. As per advice ng HR natapos yung leave ko ng Feb 2, 2017. Pero before that nag file na agad ako ng Indefinite leave since alam ko hindi ako makakabalik after ng 2 months kasi na ICU yung baby ko due to heart problem. Na inform ko ng maayos yung HR namin in fact pumunta pa yung HR representative namin sa hospital at nakita niya yung lagay ng baby, though verbal lang sinabi niya na naiintindihan naman nila yung situation ko ngayun so humingi siya (HR) ng documents ng medical condition ng baby para yun daw ibibigay for Indefinite Leave, nabigay ko naman lahat ng need ng HR namin. Aware din si HR na months na kami asa ICU at hindi kami pwede umalis ng hospital kasi pinapatawag kami lagi. So parents lagi lang dapat asa hospital. Then eto na tapos na yung Feb 2, wala naman ako nareceive na notice or whatsoever na need ko na mag report back to work kasi tapos na yung maternity leave. Even si HR wala sinasabi sakin kasi lagi ko siya kinokontak for my SSS benefit. (Never na mention ni HR na hindi na approve yung Indefinite Leave, ang mali ko lang hindi ako nag follow up kung approve ba or hindi yung leave kasi tuliro ako sa ospital sa anak ko.) But since wala naman sinabi yung HR about sa leave na nirequest ko I was expecting na OK na.. Wala din naman siya sinasabi na hindi tinanggap yung pag file ko ng leave. So From Nov 15, 2016 to January 20, 2017 asa ICU yung baby ko. Pinakiusap lang namin na iuuwi ko na yung baby kasi sobrang laki na ng bill namin. Nag waiver na kami kaya Jan 25 nakalabas kami. Pero ang bilin ng doctor bantayan ko maigi kasi very critical ang condition ni baby for the next 6 mos. So kahit naka labas kami hindi pa rin ako pwede pumasok kasi ako mismo nag bantay sa baby ko. Still, coordinated pa din ako sa HR namin and aware sila na nakalabas nko pero close monitoring ang baby. Nung March, humingi sila ng updated medical condition ni baby for extension of leave daw. So since humingi sila meaning approve yung leave na nirequest ko? Fast forward, May yung ika 6 mos ni baby. Nirepeat lahat ng test na ginawa sakanya. Though andun pa rin yung heart condition niya for monitoring pa rin, pero ok ok naman na si baby unlike nung bagong panganak siya talaga. So nag inform na ako sa boss ko na babalik na ako sa work (nag inform ako sa boss ko hindi sa HR) sinabi ko pwede nko mag start ng JUNE. Then to my surprise, inactive na daw ako. Tapos hindi rin alam ng boss ko bakit inactive e nag sesend pa daw sya ng report na kasama pa ako sa employed, though naka (AA) yung attendanceko kasi on leave pa ako. So nag verify yung boss ko sa HR. And as per HR, inactive na daw ako kasi for separation na daw ako.. I was shocked kahit boss ko nagulat kasi pano nangyari na for separation. So ako na kumausap sa HR namin and yun nga sinabi, effective June 30, 2017 "TERMINATED" ako. What the hell. naka receive ako ng email ng Decision Notice, ang grounds nila is attendance "AWOL" what the hell, nag sama pa sila ng screenshot ng policy nila ng attendance, kung yun ang susundin. 1st Written Notice, 2nd Written Notice, Termination. In my case, wala ako nakuha na kahit anong notice. There should be RTW (Return To Work) after ng maternity leave if ever hindi nga nila tinaggap yung Indefinite leave na finile ko. If ever naman tinaggap nga nila and tapos na yung allowed extension ng leave na binigay nila, still wala paring notice. Basta na terminate ako bigla.

Paki sagot naman po ako, tama lang ba yung ginawa nila na na tem ako due to attendance "AWOL" imposible kasi yun, nakikipag communicate naman ako sa HR namin tapos biglang ganon. Sa previous company ko, pag hindi nagpakita yung ahente, nag papadala agad ng notice RTW. twice yun, at pag sumipot ka, may hearing sa HR para ipaliwanag mo bakit hindi ka nakapasok. At pag hindi ka naman dumating, dun pa lang papasok yung termination. Tama ba ako? Maling mali kasi para sakin yung ginawa ng company e. Tapos yung nakausap ko yung attorney nila, wala daw silang Indefinite leave, kaya malabo daw yung sinasabi ko. What the hell, in the first place. Kung wala nga sila nun bakit humingi ng documents yung HR namin? 2nd kung wala ngang ganon, bakit mula Feb, June ako na terminate? Sa loob ng 4 months hindi nila nagawa mag send man lang ng notice para pabalikin ako sa work. At 4 months bago ako naterminte.

Paki advice naman po kung anong tamang process, at kung tama sila.. And if ever mag file ako ng case. Malakas ba ang laban ko sakanila? Mataas ba ang chance na manalo?


Thanks,

Based on your story, ask them documents to prove they have sent memos to you. If none, your Termination may be valid but you can be indemnified as there is denial of due process.

Hi Aeynghel,

For termination, there is a due process... Notice of Violation (Notice to Explain or Show Cause Memo), Explanation of the employee and Notice of Termination. Even for AWOL employees this must be followed. Your HR should have sent the NTE to your address (indicated in their 201 file) and will ask you to explain and report to the office for hearing. Failure to do that they would in violation of the labor code.

The best that they can do is prove that you are AWOL because there is no documentation that can support that your leave was approve. Yes, companies don't have indefinite leave but documented leave filed and approve would really help you in this case because you were allowed to take a leave of absence no matter how long you stated in your leave. But since there is no document, it's easy for them to mark you as AWOL. If you have proof, even in text or email, that you are allowed to extend your leave, that would help your case. Your best scenario is that you were illegally terminated because the company did not follow due process.

Hi, yes may proof ako email and text message na nanghihingi sila ng updated medical document to support may extension of leave.

In this case po ba malakas ang laban ko kung ifile ko sila ng illegal termination? since wala naman talagang process na nangyari?

mikos23 wrote:Hi Aeynghel,

For termination, there is a due process... Notice of Violation (Notice to Explain or Show Cause Memo), Explanation of the employee and Notice of Termination. Even for AWOL employees this must be followed. Your HR should have sent the NTE to your address (indicated in their 201 file) and will ask you to explain and report to the office for hearing. Failure to do that they would in violation of the labor code.

The best that they can do is prove that you are AWOL because there is no documentation that can support that your leave was approve. Yes, companies don't have indefinite leave but documented leave filed and approve would really help you in this case because you were allowed to take a leave of absence no matter how long you stated in your leave. But since there is no document, it's easy for them to mark you as AWOL. If you have proof, even in text or email, that you are allowed to extend your leave, that would help your case. Your best scenario is that you were illegally terminated because the company did not follow due process.

Hi, yun nga po ang gusto ko gawin. Gusto ko kumuha ng tracking number or records na proof na nagpadala sila ng notice. If ever wala sila mabigay, ano po mangyari nun? Thanks.

HrDude wrote:Based on your story, ask them documents to prove they have sent memos to you. If none, your Termination may be valid but you can be indemnified as there is denial of due process.

It only means na hindi sila sumunod sa processo. You can approach DOLE, its your right.

aeynghel wrote:Hi, yun nga po ang gusto ko gawin. Gusto ko kumuha ng tracking number or records na proof na nagpadala sila ng notice. If ever wala sila mabigay, ano po mangyari nun? Thanks.

HrDude wrote:Based on your story, ask them documents to prove they have sent memos to you. If none, your Termination may be valid but you can be indemnified as there is denial of due process.

File a complaint sa NLRC. This will force them to show you proof that they did send notices regarding your termination. Be aware though that the law does not require that you receive those notices only that the company sent them.

Nag try po ako kumausap ng PAO. Bakit ang sabi nila wala daw akog laban sa kaso? Kahit daw arbiter hindi ako papanigan? Bakit naman ganon ang sinabi sa PAO? Hindi ako naniwala nag try ako mag consult sa ibang lawyer hindi PAO. Ang sabi naman mali ang ginawa ng employer ko at malakas daw laban ko. Gusto ko sana sa PAO dahil hindi ko kaya mag bayad ng attorneys fee at filing fee.. pero bakit naman ganon. Pinaliwanag ko naman ng maayos yung ginawa sakin ng employer ko pero ganon ang sagot sakin.

Magkano kaya ang possible total cost pag private attorney ang kinuha ko. Attys Fee and filling fee. and possible damage cost ang pwede ko makuha?

aeynghel wrote:Magkano kaya ang possible total cost pag private attorney ang kinuha ko. Attys Fee and filling fee. and possible damage cost ang pwede ko makuha?

Depende yan sa sisingilin ng abogado mo kaya walang makakapagbigay sayo ng exact amount. Sa Damages, depende yan sa hihingin mo at kung mananalo ka sa kaso.

HrDude wrote:

aeynghel wrote:Magkano kaya ang possible total cost pag private attorney ang kinuha ko. Attys Fee and filling fee. and possible damage cost ang pwede ko makuha?

Depende yan sa sisingilin ng abogado mo kaya walang makakapagbigay sayo ng exact amount. Sa Damages, depende yan sa hihingin mo at kung mananalo ka sa kaso.

Bakit po iba ang statement ng PAO sa private attorney? sa PAO parang walang halaga yung kaso na gusto ko isampa. Pero sa dami mo ng nakakaalam ng nangyari sakin kahit boss ko mismo nagsasabi malakas daw laban ko. Mahirap ba talaga lumapit sa PAO? malalaking kaso lang ba gusto nila i assist?

It appears that you have exhausted your paid leave, am I correct.

I have won numerous cases before for employees before but the only damages that have been awarded so far are ACTUAL DAMAGES (as in backwages and allowances that should have accrued from the moment the employee was illegally dismissed). I have yet to find an award of MORAL or EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, even in cases where the right of the employee to due process was violated.

Even if there was an error on the part of the HR not communicating with you that your indefinite leave was not approved, it appears that the HR is not the final say on this, and whoever needed to approve your leave did not, and tagged you as AWOL. In fairness, you cannot expect the company to keep you on indefinitely.

If ever there was some violation of your right to receive notice, you may be entitled to nominal damages, but trust me, that is not as big as you might think.

aeynghel wrote:

HrDude wrote:

aeynghel wrote:Magkano kaya ang possible total cost pag private attorney ang kinuha ko. Attys Fee and filling fee. and possible damage cost ang pwede ko makuha?

Depende yan sa sisingilin ng abogado mo kaya walang makakapagbigay sayo ng exact amount. Sa Damages, depende yan sa hihingin mo at kung mananalo ka sa kaso.

Bakit po iba ang statement ng PAO sa private attorney? sa PAO parang walang halaga yung kaso na gusto ko isampa. Pero sa dami mo ng nakakaalam ng nangyari sakin kahit boss ko mismo nagsasabi malakas daw laban ko. Mahirap ba talaga lumapit sa PAO? malalaking kaso lang ba gusto nila i assist?

And I find what you stated insulting to those in the government service. They receive no personal compensation from the people who demand so much of their time and pay nothing. Their government salary is pittance compared to what amount they could charge if they were in private practice. The fact that they gave you an assessment just goes to show that you were in fact assisted, you just did not like to hear what they had to say.

It might appear that from their assessment of your particular situation, it is not worth it to pursue. Rape victims, the the heirs of people who were murdered, children abused, and battered women who are indigent also are in dire need of PAO services.

Yes, ubos na yung leave credits ko. Let's say hindi talaga nila pinayagan yung indefinite leave ko, I wonder bakit hindi man lang ako nakatanggap ng RTW or Notice to Report back to work. and after 4 months duon lang ako na terminate, imposible na nagpadala sila ng notice dahil wala talaga ako nakuha kahit isa. samantalang yung term paper ko dumating sa bahay namin. Can you give me an idea kung magkano yung sinasabi mo na actual damage lang? Thanks!

Jadis wrote:It appears that you have exhausted your paid leave, am I correct.

I have won numerous cases before for employees before but the only damages that have been awarded so far are ACTUAL DAMAGES (as in backwages and allowances that should have accrued from the moment the employee was illegally dismissed). I have yet to find an award of MORAL or EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, even in cases where the right of the employee to due process was violated.

Even if there was an error on the part of the HR not communicating with you that your indefinite leave was not approved, it appears that the HR is not the final say on this, and whoever needed to approve your leave did not, and tagged you as AWOL. In fairness, you cannot expect the company to keep you on indefinitely.

If ever there was some violation of your right to receive notice, you may be entitled to nominal damages, but trust me, that is not as big as you might think.

There is no amount for actual damages because you were on leave without pay.

so wala po ba ako makukuha kahit illegal yung pag terminate nila sakin? aware naman sila na gusto ko bumalik at wala ako plano mag resign. tapos without communication tenirminate nila ako...

Jadis wrote:There is no amount for actual damages because you were on leave without pay.

How can you say that the termination was illegal? As long as they is/are basis/es for your termination, the presumption is that your termination is valid.

As long as they have documents to prove that they have sent notices to you, your ACTUAL receipt thereof is immaterial.

WHETHER YOU RECEIVE OR NOT the notices, the minimum requirement of the law have been complied with if they have indeed sent those notices.

Hi, i would like tom ask what will be the defense of a company on the following case:

"A regular employee was terminated (verbally only) for commission of an offense punishable by dismissal as per company policy. However, said company did not comply with procedural due process for termination of employment, it only told to said employee that he was terminated. Of course, after hearing that, that employee did not report to work the following days saying thru text message that he has no "pakialam" at all on the decision of the company. For record purposes, the company later issued a dismissal letter stating that he was terminated on the day of the commission of offense, but this was not received by said employee. Later, that employee filed an illegal dismissal against the company claiming for separation pay."

Thank you po

your company is liable as you did not give due process.. even if the termination is valid, you still have to comply with the 2 notice rule.

Is there any possible defense of a company on this scenario?

Talk to a lawyer, he will advise you on what to do